application ABC finder
created 13 Jun 2007 8:56:34 UTC
name abc_wu_388981310000_300000
canonical result 4303912
granted credit 1,116.19
minimum quorum 2
initial replication 2
max # of error/total/success results 8, 8, 4
Result ID
click for details Computer Sent Time reported
or deadline
explain Server state
explain Outcome
explain Client state
explain CPU time (sec) claimed credit granted credit
4303912 14882 13 Jun 2007 9:36:18 UTC 14 Jun 2007 9:18:02 UTC Over Success Done 48,829.64 199.02 1,000.00
4303913 15964 13 Jun 2007 9:37:47 UTC 18 Jun 2007 15:51:56 UTC Over Success Done 24,261.15 163.20 1,000.00
I am only too happy for this, but can somebody explain why?
just curious
/ 
Who can explain Santa Claus? Well, maybe try here.
/ 
application ABC finder
created 13 Jun 2007 8:56:34 UTC
name abc_wu_388981310000_300000
canonical result 4303912
granted credit 1,116.19
minimum quorum 2
initial replication 2
max # of error/total/success results 8, 8, 4
Result ID
click for details Computer Sent Time reported
or deadline
explain Server state
explain Outcome
explain Client state
explain CPU time (sec) claimed credit granted credit
4303912 14882 13 Jun 2007 9:36:18 UTC 14 Jun 2007 9:18:02 UTC Over Success Done 48,829.64 199.02 1,000.00
4303913 15964 13 Jun 2007 9:37:47 UTC 18 Jun 2007 15:51:56 UTC Over Success Done 24,261.15 163.20 1,000.00
I am only too happy for this, but can somebody explain why?
just curious
nothing new.. lol depends on the calculating time. 1000 is also the max you can get on a workunit, and there not much of them.
____________
/ I had one too.
200 credit claimed and 1000 received.
/ And a second Wu with 1000credit.
/ 
I had 5 of them early on, but Santa Claus has not been to my systems for a long time.
You may have to edit your DCF after doing one of them or you will have a hard time getting 2 or 3 units even with a long work cache. Worth it for those credits I think.
Pizza@Home is still trying to get work units ready but they have all been esten before going online.
____________
Pizza@Home Rays Place Rays place Forums
/ 
Absolute true that is worth the credits those units run for serious long times.
So its not even much what you are getting for such a long time crunchers look at the time they need to complete :)
I had one as well and looks good in the stats ;)
/ 
After doing a long (33 hours on my slow computer) work unit, I can only now
receive one wu at a time, and I think that this is to do with the DCF.
How do I return this setting back to a default or normal setting?
Which file is it in, and what value needs to be changed to reset the DCF so
that I receive 3or 4 work units at a time like before?
My account is set to connect every 1 day, as I use a slow, expensive dial-up.
____________
The biggest threat to public safety and security is not terrorism, it is Government abuse of authority.
Bitcoin Donations: 1Le52kWoLz42fjfappoBmyg73oyvejKBR3
/ To reset your DCF you do the following
Exit BOINC. Navigate to the BOINC subfolder (on Windows this is usually C:/Program Files/BOINC) and look for a file called client_state.xml. Open this in a text editor, I use Notepad. Scroll down and look for the ABC@Home project. In this list of information, near the bottom you should find the following option
<duration_correction_factor>1.904321</duration_correction_factor>
Modify the number to 1.000000 (I believe that you need the six zeros for this to work). Then Save (do not use Save As, as this will give the wrong filetype). Restart BOINC.
Be warned, that client_state.xml contains a lot of important information for BOINC to work properly. If you are not sure, do not modify it, as this can lead to your BOINC install being reset or trashed, and potentially having to be deleted and reinstalled from scratch.
If you are not happy modifying this file, you can just wait, and as shorter workunits are done the DCF will drop of its own accord.
Hope this helps.
Michael
/ Thank you, your information is very valuable.
I don't think I will need to edit my DCF yet, as I have received another long
work unit which I estimate will take 48 hours on my slow machine.
Incidentally, although this should really go in a separate thread, I reckon
that my computer is one of the slowest that is participating in this project,
unless anybody else knows differently.
____________
The biggest threat to public safety and security is not terrorism, it is Government abuse of authority.
Bitcoin Donations: 1Le52kWoLz42fjfappoBmyg73oyvejKBR3
/ Just got one of those surprices - and wonder :) I took a look at the wu, and the other host spent 91k seconds - way longer than mine - and that amounts to approx. 25 hours. I've heard of overclaiming, but not overgranting ;)
/ Bruno
That is so people will complete the long ones. If they paid the same credit/Hr. as the short ones many would abort and they would not get run.
____________
Pizza@Home Rays Place Rays place Forums
/ pardon my french, but that just sounds childish to me ;) Pretty soon, then, people would abort the short ones as they don't get you much credit - and people will only return results that would give 1k *lol*
/ 
pardon my french, but that just sounds childish to me ;) Pretty soon, then, people would abort the short ones as they don't get you much credit - and people will only return results that would give 1k *lol*
But there are way more short WUs than long ones. And there are many people who don't like WUs taking over 24 hours.
Plus it's a nice extra reward when having finished one of the "monsters". :-)
____________
Lovely greetings from Cori
/ pardon my french, but that just sounds childish to me ;) Pretty soon, then, people would abort the short ones as they don't get you much credit - and people will only return results that would give 1k *lol*
But there are way more short WUs than long ones. And there are many people who don't like WUs taking over 24 hours.
Plus it's a nice extra reward when having finished one of the "monsters". :-)
Personally I don't find it a nice extra reward. Other projects have wu's that are way longer, and reliable stats are impossible to create - there are enough bogus credits already (dare I say CPDN)
/ pardon my french, but that just sounds childish to me ;) Pretty soon, then, people would abort the short ones as they don't get you much credit - and people will only return results that would give 1k *lol*
But there are way more short WUs than long ones. And there are many people who don't like WUs taking over 24 hours.
Plus it's a nice extra reward when having finished one of the "monsters". :-)
Personally I don't find it a nice extra reward. Other projects have wu's that are way longer, and reliable stats are impossible to create - there are enough bogus credits already (dare I say CPDN)
Well, but projects with much longer WUs do grant over 1000 credits for those. ;-)
Although I have to agree that credit output per hour can vary a lot from project to project. But that can also depend on what OS you're running or what CPU you're using.
____________
Lovely greetings from Cori
/ Personally I don't find it a nice extra reward. Other projects have wu's that are way longer, and reliable stats are impossible to create - there are enough bogus credits already (dare I say CPDN)
Well, but projects with much longer WUs do grant over 1000 credits for those. ;-)
I have yet to see SETI, Einstein and QMC grant 1000 for one wu lasting less than 8 days active CPU time ;)
Although I have to agree that credit output per hour can vary a lot from project to project. But that can also depend on what OS you're running or what CPU you're using.
Well, one thing is varying credit/hour - they are normally miniscule - but a jump from approx. 110-120 for 24 hours work to 1000 for the same 24 hours of work is huge - I don't mind having a 10GFlop computer, but it should be actual 10GFlop, not 3GFlop bloated to 10 just for show ;)
/ 
These 1000 credit WUs are really rare. I don't think they makes any meaningful difference when averaged out. But they sure do keep me interested!
____________
Dublin, CA
Team SETI.USA
/ These 1000 credit WUs are really rare. I don't think they makes any meaningful difference when averaged out. But they sure do keep me interested!
Agreed. ;-)
____________
Lovely greetings from Cori
/
Bruno, the 1000 credit gems are like beer. The first time you try one you think it's terrible but if you swallow 4 or 5 then suddenly you know why you should drink beer ;)
/
Bruno, the 1000 credit gems are like beer. The first time you try one you think it's terrible but if you swallow 4 or 5 then suddenly you know why you should drink beer ;)
LOL
*Prost* together
/ well, they've made me disable work requests for the time being - just as another projects odd huge credits have
/ well, they've made me disable work requests for the time being - just as another projects odd huge credits have
Why? Do you believe that the average credits (including both regular and 1k) are more than other projects? Do you have any evidence of that?
____________
Dublin, CA
Team SETI.USA
/ 
Is there any reason for this cheating by the project?
I always thought the 1000s were of a size, that's comparable to 1000, if 1000 is granted for small WUs, that only deserve 200, it's plain cheating by the project. The crunchers can't do anything about it, besides stopping such a disgraceful project, it's not them who cheat.
I won't crunch any more for them until they stop this cheating.
Why? Do you believe that the average credits (including both regular and 1k) are more than other projects? Do you have any evidence of that?
I havn't got one of the cheater WUs now, but the average grant is above the average claim even without this cheater-WUs, so yes, I think this is evidence enough.
____________
Grüße vom Sänger
For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki
/ There's no "cheating" involved.
It's the project's credit policy. Like it or don't crunch for them.
/ There's no "cheating" involved.
It's the project's credit policy. Like it or don't crunch for them.
I know, and I've said so, that it's not the crunchers that cheat, but this absolutely unrewarded credit inflation is imho cheating by the project in regard of other projects.
I havn't heard of any justification for this exorbitant overgranting, the only one I can imagine is to lure crunchers away from other projects with illegitime methods.
____________
Grüße vom Sänger
For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki
/ 
There's no "cheating" involved.
It's the project's credit policy. Like it or don't crunch for them.
I know, and I've said so, that it's not the crunchers that cheat, but this absolutely unrewarded credit inflation is imho cheating by the project in regard of other projects.
OMG !!! i'm crunching --->2<--- of the cheater WUs on the same host !!!!
Damn, i'm gonna abort them NOW!!
I havn't heard of any justification for this exorbitant overgranting, the only one I can imagine is to lure crunchers away from other projects with illegitime methods.
Yes that must be it! drag all the 1088730 users on other projects to ABC... what a extremely evil and extremely devilish plan
!!!P.S.
Haven't heard you spamming bout DLB lately... go play at predictor.
____________
regards
Crunch3r
/
I know, and I've said so, that it's not the crunchers that cheat, but this absolutely unrewarded credit inflation is imho cheating by the project in regard of other projects.
Again , there is no "cheating". Do you need a dictionary for the definition of "cheating"? So what if this project grants credit at different rates than other projects? Everyone here gets a chance to crunch the "big ones".
I havn't heard of any justification for this exorbitant overgranting, the only one I can imagine is to lure crunchers away from other projects with illegitime methods.
It's about time that a few projects finally have the balls to set their own credit granting schedule, and quit chasing the impossible and ill-conceived concept of cross-project stats parity. There has been way too much time and effort wasted on that nonsense.
I think I'll head over to RND and get some REAL credit.
/ on my ~63.000 credits so far, there were 3 or 4 WU which gets 1k credits. so max 5% of the total credit are from the jewels. and i was lucky, because i got 2 of them the last week. alltogether, maybe 1% of the overall credits granted from the projekt belong to the jewels, so where is you problem?
/
P.S.
Haven't heard you spamming bout DLB lately... go play at predictor.
Predictor is not and was not a game.
Your attack is stupid.
/
P.S.
Haven't heard you spamming bout DLB lately... go play at predictor.
Predictor is not and was not a game.
Your attack is stupid.
Get a RAC and get some Credits.
Then come back and talk ;)
____________
regards
Crunch3r
/ I havn't heard of any justification for this exorbitant overgranting, the only one I can imagine is to lure crunchers away from other projects with illegitime methods.
Still all of you refused to answer to this. I can't imagine any justification for such grantings, is there any? OK, it may be only for 10% of the WUs, but why at all?
____________
Grüße vom Sänger
For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki
/ I havn't heard of any justification for this exorbitant overgranting, the only one I can imagine is to lure crunchers away from other projects with illegitime methods.
Still all of you refused to answer to this. I can't imagine any justification for such grantings, is there any? OK, it may be only for 10% of the WUs, but why at all?
The credit system was already explained by the admin here:
http://abcathome.com/forum_thread.php?id=148
There is no point in repeating it.
10%? Where did you get that number?
____________
Dublin, CA
Team SETI.USA
/ The credit system was already explained by the admin here:
http://abcathome.com/forum_thread.php?id=148
There is no point in repeating it.
Hendrik said this:
The philosophy is as follows: the granting credit is exponential.
We want to stimulate finishing long workunits. You're right that
after X hours you'll always get a 1000 credits otherwise they'd
go sky high.
This X seems to be quite low, if it's possible to get five times the claimed credit.
A long WU is a WU that lasts longer than several days CPU time, otherwise all Einstein should grant 5 times as much as usual, and CPDN probably 100 times as much as malaria. A small incentive, let's say factor 1.2 for CPU hours above 48, may be OK, everything else is just a free giveaway without any trade-off.
10%? Where did you get that number?
I just guessed, may be 2%, may be 10%, it's imho irrelevant as long as it's more than 0.00%
____________
Grüße vom Sänger
For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki
/ 
It's about time that a few projects finally have the balls to set their own credit granting schedule, and quit chasing the impossible and ill-conceived concept of cross-project stats parity. There has been way too much time and effort wasted on that nonsense.
I think I'll head over to RND and get some REAL credit.
Just another statement of a (excuse my english) "Credit-Whore".
Different credit granting schedules make it impossible to compare different projects. Its difficult enough already. Imho, its about time to have the same credit system for all projects, this should be compulsory. The projects and the science should be the most important... The credits should be second most important, to allow a fair competition and fair comparisons.
Its also about time to ban cheater clients, but thats a different story. There are way to many BOINC users not wanting to support projects and/or science but to show off with their credits.
Go, play at RND then...
PS: I dont need special credits to finish a workunit. I either support projects with long wu's (because I believe in the spirit of BOINC) or I dont (if I believe in the power of credits). CPDN and SAP and WCG workunits for example last much longer, and people are still willing to complete a workunit without extra credits.
Guess why...
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/
It's about time that a few projects finally have the balls to set their own credit granting schedule, and quit chasing the impossible and ill-conceived concept of cross-project stats parity. There has been way too much time and effort wasted on that nonsense.
I think I'll head over to RND and get some REAL credit.
Just another statement of a (excuse my english) "Credit-Whore".
Different credit granting schedules make it impossible to compare different projects.
Projects don't need to be compared so where is the problem? The problem exists only in your head. Go find a real problem or maybe sign up on Lavalife and find someone to occupy the hours you now spend obsessing over these ridiculous comparisons and stats.
Its difficult enough already. Imho, its about time to have the same credit system for all projects, this should be compulsory. The projects and the science should be the most important... The credits should be second most important, to allow a fair competition and fair comparisons.
Why does it always have to boil down to competition and comparison? Why is not enough to just crunch, assist the science and be happy doing it? The only thing you've got right here is the fact that your opinion is indeed humble though I think neurotic and pedantic would be apt adjectives as well.
Its also about time to ban cheater clients, but thats a different story. There are way to many BOINC users not wanting to support projects and/or science but to show off with their credits.
Go, play at RND then...
PS: I dont need special credits to finish a workunit. I either support projects with long wu's (because I believe in the spirit of BOINC) or I dont (if I believe in the power of credits). CPDN and SAP and WCG workunits for example last much longer, and people are still willing to complete a workunit without extra credits.
Guess why...
Well guess what.... ABC adopted a fixed credit system to avoid the cheating you mention. The trouble is they have no way of accurately estimating the length of their WUs and the credits each WU should receive. They spent time tweaking their estimation algorithm when the project went public and those of us who were here crunching at that time saw the credits oscillate from too high to too low until they finally settled on the level they are now at. If they tweak the credits down a bit then there will complaints that ABC pays less than other projects. So that's why ABC is where it is today... it ain't perfect but it's good enough.
All you k00ks and whiners accusing this project of attempting to steal crunchers from other projects... look at the stats... if they're trying to steal then it doesn't seem to be working very well so go find a real crime or an alien or something.
/ Different credit granting schedules make it impossible to compare different projects. Its difficult enough already. Imho, its about time to have the same credit system for all projects, this should be compulsory. The projects and the science should be the most important... The credits should be second most important, to allow a fair competition and fair comparisons.
Why do we need to compare credits across projects?
You are contradicting yourself - you say credits aren't important, but we have to have all projects run the same credit system.
Why should any project waste precious developer time to make it's credit system match any others? Why stop at BOINC - are you going to demand that the non-BOINC projects comply as well?
/ Why do we need to compare credits across projects?
You are contradicting yourself - you say credits aren't important, but we have to have all projects run the same credit system.
Why should any project waste precious developer time to make it's credit system match any others? Why stop at BOINC - are you going to demand that the non-BOINC projects comply as well?
This project spent precious developer time to make it's credit system not match others. I still don't know why this deviation, that perhaps was OK last year in Beta, is still operative.
And yes, credits are important, in an ideal world probably not, but we don't live in an ideal world.
/ [quote]Why do we need to compare credits across projects?
You are contradicting yourself - you say credits aren't important, but we have to have all projects run the same credit system.
Why should any project waste precious developer time to make it's credit system match any others? Why stop at BOINC - are you going to demand that the non-BOINC projects comply as well?
This project spent precious developer time to make it's credit system not match others.
Wrong. They spent precious developer time creating a credit system that prevents the cheating that you were whining about last year.
I still don't know why this deviation, that perhaps was OK last year in Beta, is still operative.
Wrong again. The reason why it is still in operation has been explained and you do understand it. You just refuse to accept the explanation. Or else you're an idiot and truly do not understand.
And yes, credits are important, in an ideal world probably not, but we don't live in an ideal world.
Right. The world is not perfect so get used to ABC's less than perfect credit system because it's not hurting you or anybody else.
/ double post
/
Why do we need to compare credits across projects?
You are contradicting yourself - you say credits aren't important, but we have to have all projects run the same credit system.
I'm not contradicting myself. I never said credits arent important. I said that credits are important to allow fair competition and comparison. At least to me. I never said to you or anybody else. Simply: To me its important. If you cant stand other peoples opinions, dont visit message boards.
Why should any project waste precious developer time to make it's credit system match any others? Why stop at BOINC - are you going to demand that the non-BOINC projects comply as well?
If there would be the same credit system at all BOINC projects, nobody would have to waste precious time to invent one. And no, I'm not talking about non-BOINC-Projects. Why should I? I'm not driving a Mercedes, so I wont talk about Mercedes.
And as always, thats just my humble opinion!
PS: And as always the volunteers do care more about the project than the officials. At least they should assure that all posts abide by the Message Board rules ("No messages that are deliberately hostile or insulting.") Think about it...
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ And as always, thats just my humble opinion!
PS: And as always the volunteers do care more about the project than the officials. At least they should assure that all posts abide by the Message Board rules ("No messages that are deliberately hostile or insulting.") Think about it...
Lol. You k00ks are all so predictable.
You post your k00k opinions, you insult the project admins and crunchers, your k00k opinions get exposed for the utter nonsense they are and then you whine about broken rules, hostility and insults. Contradiction upon contradiction.
If there would be the same credit system at all BOINC projects, nobody would have to waste precious time to invent one.
One credit system that works at all projects. Put that on the same list as the Fountain of Youth, Perpetual Motion Machines and snowballs in Hell.
/
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ And as always, thats just my humble opinion!
PS: And as always the volunteers do care more about the project than the officials. At least they should assure that all posts abide by the Message Board rules ("No messages that are deliberately hostile or insulting.") Think about it...
Lol. You k00ks are all so predictable.
You post your k00k opinions, you insult the project admins and crunchers, your k00k opinions get exposed for the utter nonsense they are and then you whine about broken rules, hostility and insults. Contradiction upon contradiction.
If there would be the same credit system at all BOINC projects, nobody would have to waste precious time to invent one.
One credit system that works at all projects. Put that on the same list as the Fountain of Youth, Perpetual Motion Machines and snowballs in Hell.
Oh Mann, geh doch bitte kacken! :rolleyes:
/ Oh Mann, geh doch bitte kacken! :rolleyes:
Don't listen too much to Dago-Rat, he's not someone who likes arguments, he usually only rants, without much regard to reality or facts.
/
P.S.
Haven't heard you spamming bout DLB lately... go play at predictor.
Predictor is not and was not a game.
Your attack is stupid.
Get a RAC and get some Credits.
Then come back and talk ;)
I was sure of your answer.
So easy to do...
Maybe this project would need to enable a RAC requirement (or anything) to post...
/ 
I won't crunch any more for them until they stop this cheating.
You don't crunch for this project anyway - see ya latter !
____________
/
P.S.
Haven't heard you spamming bout DLB lately... go play at predictor.
Predictor is not and was not a game.
Your attack is stupid.
Get a RAC and get some Credits.
Then come back and talk ;)
I was sure of your answer.
So easy to do...
Maybe this project would need to enable a RAC requirement (or anything) to post...
Agreed ! - opps that would mean you :) _just kidding -
But - at least get those that don't contribute quit crying - most of the complainers are crunching less than 50 credits per day - many have not crunched anything in awhile - and MOST complain more than they crunch!
To my knowledge I have not gotten a large WU - and I use the standard client - therefore _ I am not sure why all the complaining - maybe because those of you that are complaining are NOT getting a large WU ? Just shut up and crunch!
I have never seen a bigger bunch of babies than the zero rac crew! Seems all they do is go from project to project and complain about "so and so is getting too many credits" or "so and so is cheating"
Maybe someone should develop a project where no credits are given then all the zero RAC crew could go there and crunch!
____________
/ I have gotten a large 1000 credit workunit, but it took only 13.2 hours to solve, so it's not too bad. My biggest regret was a workunit that took 11.77 hours to solve for 759 credits.
Now, that was a 32-bit Windows application. I wonder how the 64-bit Windows app would have done :)
/
____________
/ Oh Mann, geh doch bitte kacken! :rolleyes:
Don't listen too much to Dago-Rat, he's not someone who likes arguments, he usually only rants, without much regard to reality or facts.
The facts you pull out of your ass? Nope, I have no regard for that crap.
/ Shite! Just when I thought it was safe to rack up a quick million...... It's.... The Credit Police!!
____________
Don't waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long and, in the end, it's only with yourself
/ Oh Mann, geh doch bitte kacken! :rolleyes:
Don't listen too much to Dago-Rat, he's not someone who likes arguments, he usually only rants, without much regard to reality or facts.
I would say - Never listen to a Zero RACer, they are just not worth the effort.(but it is fun to call them Zero RACer's :) ) - At least Dagorath contributes to the project - unlike some that only complain.
BTW Dagorath - check your rear view mirror - that would be me flashing the lights asking you to pull over and let me by..
Small Whale - is that something like a Fish - It is NEVER safe to come out and play as long as we have a Saenger running about - I mean, look at that avatar - I mean, that is one UGLY creature, matches the personality.
____________
/
P.S.
Haven't heard you spamming bout DLB lately... go play at predictor.
Predictor is not and was not a game.
Your attack is stupid.
Get a RAC and get some Credits.
Then come back and talk ;)
I was sure of your answer.
So easy to do...
Maybe this project would need to enable a RAC requirement (or anything) to post...
Joined: Nov 21, 2006
Credit: 0
RAC: 0
Why are you here?
/ And just because you guys have a RAC of 10,000+ (with computers that might not even belong to you), you think you are the only ones having the right to express your opinion about this issue?
Shame on you! Its the small crunchers that made BOINC big, not you arrogant, insulting, sneering people!
Its hopeless anyway: I have my opinion, you have yours, and no project official around. Its the projects policy, I dont think its correct and fair, but as always, thats just my humble opinion. If I dont like it, I'll go somewhere else or I will cancel obvious 1k wu's and keep on crunching WCGs, SAPs or QMCs instead - which take much longer and I will only get one quarter of the credits compared to those monster ABC wu's...
So everythings fine in the end: I'll do serious crunching, and you'll have a bit more of those absurdly overgranted wu's. (IMHO! ;)
Kind regards, Shai
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ And just because you guys have a RAC of 10,000+ (with computers that might not even belong to you), you think you are the only ones having the right to express your opinion about this issue?
Why are you making accusations like this?
____________
Dublin, CA
Team SETI.USA
/ And just because you guys have a RAC of 10,000+ (with computers that might not even belong to you), you think you are the only ones having the right to express your opinion about this issue?
Why are you making accusations like this?
If your question is in relation to the "might not belong to you" comment, It is a reasonably correct assertion. Many "BIG" crunchers are professional/institutional/corporate cruncher using resources not their own. I know that you field a large[I believe] personally owned farm. My 208Ghz+ is owned and operated/funded likewise by myself.
In any event my "opinion" is of no more value because I pay for my crunching than those who are supported by other entities.
____________
208.55Ghz Home Owned and Operated Crunching Power
/ And just because you guys have a RAC of 10,000+ (with computers that might not even belong to you), you think you are the only ones having the right to express your opinion about this issue?
Shame on you! Its the small crunchers that made BOINC big, not you arrogant, insulting, sneering people!
Its hopeless anyway: I have my opinion, you have yours, and no project official around. Its the projects policy, I dont think its correct and fair, but as always, thats just my humble opinion. If I dont like it, I'll go somewhere else or I will cancel obvious 1k wu's and keep on crunching WCGs, SAPs or QMCs instead - which take much longer and I will only get one quarter of the credits compared to those monster ABC wu's...
So everythings fine in the end: I'll do serious crunching, and you'll have a bit more of those absurdly overgranted wu's. (IMHO! ;)
Kind regards, Shai
You have not crunched a SINGLE WU in more than a month -(With the exception that today, you decided to actually contribute to the project and down load a few ) - So what ! - Contribute on a daily basis, even 1 WU a day! And then maybe my opinion of the ZERO RACers will change.
You say that it is the "small crunchers" that make BOINC work - to some degree you are correct - but in a large part you are not. I checked your stats yesterday, and not even a single WU for this project in at least over 30 days.
you just go ahead and cancel those WU's that you don't like to crunch, I don't think it matters much anyway.
And - each and every machine I crunch with is mine - paid for out of my money, all electricity to run them are paid for out of my pocket -
____________
/ Although I said "might not even belong to you", this was an inconsiderate statement. Sorry for that!
Still I dont see why I cant have my opinion about this issue just because I havent crunched for THIS project for quite some time. So what? Thats completely irrelevant, and its still an arrogant attitude towards the small crunchers like me. It took me more than 2 weeks to get the 17,000 credits I have now. And I have another focus atm, as you can see in my stats.
I still dont like the 1k wu's, doesnt matter if I have 1 (and a half) computer or 100. Just expressing my opinion here. But you just push too hard here. Insulting people with "k00ks" and "Zero RACers". I'm happy for you guys who can afford a farm of computers. But please dont downplay the efforts and opinions of the small crunchers.
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/
Still I dont see why I cant have my opinion about this issue just because I havent crunched for THIS project for quite some time.
See the bold one. That's exactly why you get those resposes. You artificialy create an issue where ther is NONE.
I still dont like the 1k wu's, doesnt matter if I have 1 (and a half) computer or 100. Just expressing my opinion here. But you just push too hard here. Insulting people with "k00ks" and "Zero RACers".
And you do too. remeber that "geh kacken!" statement of yours ? ;)
I'm happy for you guys who can afford a farm of computers. But please dont downplay the efforts and opinions of the small crunchers.
No one does, unless one shows up here just to complain and to insult the project admin of cheating...
____________
regards
Crunch3r
/ And you do too. remeber that "geh kacken!" statement of yours ? ;)
I used no Swear word, I even said "Bitte!" :D
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ And just because you guys have a RAC of 10,000+ (with computers that might not even belong to you), you think you are the only ones having the right to express your opinion about this issue?
I respect your right to post whatever you want to post no matter what your RAC is. You need to learn to respect our right to tell you that your k00k opinions are k00k opinions. If that doesn't suit you then don't post your k00k opinions here.
Shame on you! Its the small crunchers that made BOINC big, not you arrogant, insulting, sneering people!
Yes, small crunchers made BOINC big and we're not about to let k00ks bring BOINC down.
Its hopeless anyway: I have my opinion, you have yours, and no project official around. Its the projects policy, I dont think its correct and fair, but as always, thats just my humble opinion. If I dont like it, I'll go somewhere else
If you leave quickly then you can take your time coming back.
or I will cancel obvious 1k wu's
Twit, they're never obvious. But go ahead and crunch for 10 hours then cancel and get nothing and contribute nothing... it would be the k00k thing to do.
and keep on crunching WCGs, SAPs or QMCs instead - which take much longer and I will only get one quarter of the credits compared to those monster ABC wu's...
Mine eyes are blinded by the radiant light that shineth forth from the golden halo above your beautiful albeit empty head, Oh Generous Wonder of Wonders.
/ And you do too. remeber that "geh kacken!" statement of yours ? ;)
I used no Swear word, I even said "Bitte!" :D
Yeah, if that would make it any better of what you ask for... for those that don't understand that one ...
Mr. [B^S] Shai Hulud was asking to "Please have a shit now !" ....
Well, yes he was polite to ask "please"... but the rest ...well ......
____________
regards
Crunch3r
/ And you do too. remeber that "geh kacken!" statement of yours ? ;)
I used no Swear word, I even said "Bitte!" :D
Yeah, if that would make it any better of what you ask for... for those that don't understand that one ...
Mr. [B^S] Shai Hulud was asking to "Please have a shit now !" ....
Well, yes he was polite to ask "please"... but the rest ...well ......
Are you sure about the Mr. title? I am convinced it's a woman with severe PMS.
/ Although I said "might not even belong to you", this was an inconsiderate statement. Sorry for that!
Still I dont see why I cant have my opinion about this issue just because I havent crunched for THIS project for quite some time. So what? Thats completely irrelevant, and its still an arrogant attitude towards the small crunchers like me. It took me more than 2 weeks to get the 17,000 credits I have now. And I have another focus atm, as you can see in my stats.
I still dont like the 1k wu's, doesnt matter if I have 1 (and a half) computer or 100. Just expressing my opinion here. But you just push too hard here. Insulting people with "k00ks" and "Zero RACers". I'm happy for you guys who can afford a farm of computers. But please dont downplay the efforts and opinions of the small crunchers.
Let me put it in simple terms so simple minds can understand -
IF YOU DON'T VOTE YOU DON'T HAVE A SAY - IF YOU DON'T CRUNCH - YOU SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO COMPLAIN-
AGAIN - READ my statement VERY CAREFULLY -- IF you contribute even 1 WU a day - GREAT !!!! THEN you have a voice ! - but you haven't - and neither has SNEDDAGAR! - Get crunching - then you can vote!
If YOU are not participating in a project 1: Why would you CARE unless the only reason is to cause problems - or 2: Because you have no life and are bored.
Do you have a right to complain a about a companies internal policies if you dont work for that companies ? INSANE
AND - more to the point - WHY would ANY SANE person complain about getting PAID TOO MUCH ??? WHEN getting PAID - it is the POLICY of the COMPANY too PAY YOU !!
ZERO RACers = RETARDS !!
____________
/ As you can see in my sig, I have a RAC of 709 @BOINCstats, or, if you only take the values from the projects at face value and add 'em up, 1283. Shai has a RAC of 732, so if that's Zero-RAC, please explain what's not Zero-RAC.
Of course you only use this insults and ranting to avoid discussions about the topic, the inter project comparability of the credits of all BOINC projects. Credits are not some project for project stuff, they are something to be roughly the same throughout BOINC. Just because you say other despite the reality of all inter project stats pages it won't get any truer.
As I had this "discussion" on several projects that grant more then usual, iirc with the same personal on the "other side" as well, I deduct that the science is nothing for those credit whores, only credits count. As soon as those disparities are made a topic in the fora, they try to shout down the threads, insult the complainers, don't deliver any argument, just rant.
I'm always torn between not feeding the trolls and letting utter nonsense stand as a last word. I decided against the first again, I think.
And of course I'm complaining, if someone gets too little pay compared to someone else for the same work done, especially if it's in the same company, just another department, like here in the different BOINC projects.
____________
Grüße vom Sänger
For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki
/ As you can see in my sig, I have a RAC of 709 @BOINCstats, or, if you only take the values from the projects at face value and add 'em up, 1283. Shai has a RAC of 732, so if that's Zero-RAC, please explain what's not Zero-RAC.
Of course you only use this insults and ranting to avoid discussions about the topic, the inter project comparability of the credits of all BOINC projects. Credits are not some project for project stuff, they are something to be roughly the same throughout BOINC. Just because you say other despite the reality of all inter project stats pages it won't get any truer.
As I had this "discussion" on several projects that grant more then usual, iirc with the same personal on the "other side" as well, I deduct that the science is nothing for those credit whores, only credits count. As soon as those disparities are made a topic in the fora, they try to shout down the threads, insult the complainers, don't deliver any argument, just rant.
I'm always torn between not feeding the trolls and letting utter nonsense stand as a last word. I decided against the first again, I think.
And of course I'm complaining, if someone gets too little pay compared to someone else for the same work done, especially if it's in the same company, just another department, like here in the different BOINC projects.
We are talking about this project "department" if you think you are getting paid too much - then leave ! - oh, wait - it looks like you already have since you have not worked in this project/department for some time now - therefore - again - you have should not have a vote of what goes on in this project/department
____________
/ The goal is to get this table as close as possible to 1 in all lines, so that everybody gets roughly the same "pay" for the same work. Of course with the exception of PS3, as here it's several cores crunching parallel, so comparison is like apples and oranges.
If the difference is only between 0.9 and 1.1, it's fine, but values like 0.56 (Sztaki) and 1.41 (Cosmology) are imho too far off. And this 1000 credits WUs for crunching 200 credits worth of work is too far off as well.
/ The goal is to get this table as close as possible to 1 in all lines, so that everybody gets roughly the same "pay" for the same work. Of course with the exception of PS3, as here it's several cores crunching parallel, so comparison is like apples and oranges.
If the difference is only between 0.9 and 1.1, it's fine, but values like 0.56 (Sztaki) and 1.41 (Cosmology) are imho too far off. And this 1000 credits WUs for crunching 200 credits worth of work is too far off as well.
Dang! looks like I need to start doing more Cosmo!!!!! Thanks for the info !! And of course - If the credits are too high for you there - You don't need to work in that project/department.
BTW - I am not sure what company you work for, but any place that I have ever worked for - each department has different pay scales.
____________
/ Dang! looks like I need to start doing more Cosmo!!!!! Thanks for the info !! And of course - If the credits are too high for you there - You don't need to work in that project/department.
BTW - I am not sure what company you work for, but any place that I have ever worked for - each department has different pay scales.
You will find me there as well complaining about too much credit ;)
And in both my companies I worked for we had a collective wage agreement for the whole company with a pay scale for different wages according to needed skills and education levels. Same kind of job -> same wage, only the higher ups are on their own to negotiate for themself, but at my current employer even that is within some kind of wage bands, that are agreed upon by the shop council and the management.
Edith says:
Beware of Windows32 @Cosmo, you'll only get normal credit.
/ The goal is to get this table as close as possible to 1 in all lines, so that everybody gets roughly the same "pay" for the same work. Of course with the exception of PS3, as here it's several cores crunching parallel, so comparison is like apples and oranges.
If the difference is only between 0.9 and 1.1, it's fine, but values like 0.56 (Sztaki) and 1.41 (Cosmology) are imho too far off. And this 1000 credits WUs for crunching 200 credits worth of work is too far off as well.
So, what is the number for ABC? It's not on the chart. Perhaps, even with the 1k bonus WUs, it is still what you consider acceptable.
____________
Dublin, CA
Team SETI.USA
/ According to my results, ABC to SETI Standard App. is appr. 1.3 to 1 - not taking 1k wu's into account. (On my one and only AMD host with 32bit WinXP).
Not judging here, just telling... ;)
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ Dang! looks like I need to start doing more Cosmo!!!!! Thanks for the info !! And of course - If the credits are too high for you there - You don't need to work in that project/department.
BTW - I am not sure what company you work for, but any place that I have ever worked for - each department has different pay scales.
You will find me there as well complaining about too much credit ;)
And in both my companies I worked for we had a collective wage agreement for the whole company with a pay scale for different wages according to needed skills and education levels. Same kind of job -> same wage, only the higher ups are on their own to negotiate for themself, but at my current employer even that is within some kind of wage bands, that are agreed upon by the shop council and the management.
Edith says:
Beware of Windows32 @Cosmo, you'll only get normal credit.
Sucks to work at your company !!
But again - don't you have to work there in order to get a vote at the "shop council"
If you don't work, you don't get a vote.
____________
/ Although I said "might not even belong to you", this was an inconsiderate statement. Sorry for that!
Still I dont see why I cant have my opinion about this issue just because I havent crunched for THIS project for quite some time. So what? Thats completely irrelevant, and its still an arrogant attitude towards the small crunchers like me. It took me more than 2 weeks to get the 17,000 credits I have now. And I have another focus atm, as you can see in my stats.
I still dont like the 1k wu's, doesnt matter if I have 1 (and a half) computer or 100. Just expressing my opinion here. But you just push too hard here. Insulting people with "k00ks" and "Zero RACers". I'm happy for you guys who can afford a farm of computers. But please dont downplay the efforts and opinions of the small crunchers.
Let me put it in simple terms so simple minds can understand -
IF YOU DON'T VOTE YOU DON'T HAVE A SAY - IF YOU DON'T CRUNCH - YOU SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO COMPLAIN-
AGAIN - READ my statement VERY CAREFULLY -- IF you contribute even 1 WU a day - GREAT !!!! THEN you have a voice ! - but you haven't - and neither has SNEDDAGAR! - Get crunching - then you can vote!
If YOU are not participating in a project 1: Why would you CARE unless the only reason is to cause problems - or 2: Because you have no life and are bored.
ZERO RACers = RETARDS !!
Sorry, it took me a few days to be convinced that we're not getting anywhere here.
I dont have to Crunch NOW to have a vote, I DID crunch and know about this issue, so dont you tell me to shut up! And I'm pretty sure, thats not the projects policy. If it was, they would set up a RAC limit. Luckily, you guys are not the ones in charge here. You have a "quick tongue", but fortunately, you're not in the drivers seat!
But as I said, we're not getting anywhere here anyway. So I will leave you alone (oh boy, I can already hear you guys chearing!) and will go back to the message boards where one can discuss humanly without being insulted over and over again.
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ The goal is to get this table as close as possible to 1 in all lines, so that everybody gets roughly the same "pay" for the same work. Of course with the exception of PS3, as here it's several cores crunching parallel, so comparison is like apples and oranges.
If the difference is only between 0.9 and 1.1, it's fine, but values like 0.56 (Sztaki) and 1.41 (Cosmology) are imho too far off. And this 1000 credits WUs for crunching 200 credits worth of work is too far off as well.
Who's "goal" is this you're talking about? Yours? David Anderson - the would-be megalomaniac "King of DC"?
Credits are a way to attract users to a project, and keep them there.
If a new project came on the scene and DIDN'T award credit, how many people would contribute? Only the idealistic few who claim they are in it "for the science". If you suddenly took away credit granting at a large project, and zeroed out the old credits, what would happen? Danged near everyone would leave. Do you think any project admin has the balls to try it?
So - credit is the MAIN reason people crunch. More credit = more crunchers.
There is no justification for cross-project credit parity. Each project should be able to set it's own credit policy and scheme to attract the users it needs.
Client differences and platform differences will never allow it to happen, and it's not worth the energy to chase the myth. So BOO-HOO - BoincStats and the other sites that only exist to promote the myth of parity would have to find something else to do.
____________
"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)
/ The goal is to get this table as close as possible to 1 in all lines, so that everybody gets roughly the same "pay" for the same work. Of course with the exception of PS3, as here it's several cores crunching parallel, so comparison is like apples and oranges.
If the difference is only between 0.9 and 1.1, it's fine, but values like 0.56 (Sztaki) and 1.41 (Cosmology) are imho too far off. And this 1000 credits WUs for crunching 200 credits worth of work is too far off as well.
What?? A few posts up you were proclaiming yourself the King of All Facts and me the one who has no regard for facts. Now you show up with this bullshit table and your "humble opinion". So wtf happened to facts?
Now, Saenger, I must apologize for calling you a k00k. You don't deserve it and it's an insult to the rest of the k00ks. You are a dolt. But if you work real hard you might elevate yourself to k00k one day.
/
The fault in the k00k argument here is that they compare money to BOINC credits. We strive for equal money for equal work in the real world because money buys stuff we need. In the BOINC and DC world the credits are worthless. It doesn't matter how many credits we receive for X amount of crunching because in the end we all get the same. 1000 credits has exactly the same value as 1 credit, that is, no real value.
/ The goal is to get this table as close as possible to 1 in all lines, so that everybody gets roughly the same "pay" for the same work. Of course with the exception of PS3, as here it's several cores crunching parallel, so comparison is like apples and oranges.
If the difference is only between 0.9 and 1.1, it's fine, but values like 0.56 (Sztaki) and 1.41 (Cosmology) are imho too far off. And this 1000 credits WUs for crunching 200 credits worth of work is too far off as well.
Who's "goal" is this you're talking about? Yours? David Anderson - the would-be megalomaniac "King of DC"?
Credits are a way to attract users to a project, and keep them there.
If a new project came on the scene and DIDN'T award credit, how many people would contribute? Only the idealistic few who claim they are in it "for the science". If you suddenly took away credit granting at a large project, and zeroed out the old credits, what would happen? Danged near everyone would leave. Do you think any project admin has the balls to try it?
So - credit is the MAIN reason people crunch. More credit = more crunchers.
There is no justification for cross-project credit parity. Each project should be able to set it's own credit policy and scheme to attract the users it needs.
Client differences and platform differences will never allow it to happen, and it's not worth the energy to chase the myth. So BOO-HOO - BoincStats and the other sites that only exist to promote the myth of parity would have to find something else to do.
I can not believe I am going to say this- BUT - I AGREE with you !!! Right ON!!
Credits attract, and projects that want crunchers should be able to do as they like = pay what they want - to attract people! -
Maybe instead of calling them Zero RACers - we should start to call them Halo Heads ! Because of the holier than everyone attitude - I-crunch-for-the-science-only-but-like-to-complain-about-the-high-credit-mentality
____________
/
I can not believe I am going to say this- BUT - I AGREE with you !!! Right ON!!
Credits attract, and projects that want crunchers should be able to do as they like = pay what they want - to attract people! -
Maybe instead of calling them Zero RACers - we should start to call them Halo Heads ! Because of the holier than everyone attitude - I-crunch-for-the-science-only-but-like-to-complain-about-the-high-credit-mentality
That's it! They are acolytles at the unholy altar of the credit parity cult, preaching their nonsense at every project.
From now on - "halo heads"
____________
"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)
/
I can not believe I am going to say this- BUT - I AGREE with you !!! Right ON!!
Credits attract, and projects that want crunchers should be able to do as they like = pay what they want - to attract people! -
Maybe instead of calling them Zero RACers - we should start to call them Halo Heads ! Because of the holier than everyone attitude - I-crunch-for-the-science-only-but-like-to-complain-about-the-high-credit-mentality
That's it! They are acolytles at the unholy altar of the credit parity cult, preaching their nonsense at every project.
From now on - "halo heads"
ohhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
hear ye The Word of The Table
ohhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
seek ye The Way of The Halo
ohhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
all will be 1 on The Table
ohhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
/ A flame war!!! Just about the right time to have project leaders to create another board for FLAME WARRIORS so they don't pollute the main board :)
My 2c
/ A flame war!!! Just about the right time to have project leaders to create another board for FLAME WARRIORS so they don't pollute the main board :)
My 2c
Apologies to you and all the other listeners, michael37. Nobody likes the stench of black, crispy Halo Heads but ya gotta do what ya gotta do to get rid of them. I believe the foul odor they exude when left alone to multiply, as vermin always does, is even worse.
Reason and common sense were once thought to be an effective weapon but as you can see they live on, oblivious to reason and common sense, an observation that leads some to believe they should be dubbed Hollow Heads rather than Halo Heads.
/ Everybody please calm down. It might be possible the 1000 credits are more than
is justible now, in the past it was more than at other projects I think but not much afaik and as already said before to compensate the huge worktime of 1 unit and the possible chance of it not validating ok somehow, but as the project continues to progress workunit times fluctuate and hence it might be possible that now it is off the charts.
Anyway, if I browse through the tables I don't see from the beginning of september much devation between claimed and granted, and the average time to
complete a workunit is around 20 hours. I cannot see how long the average workunit
time was a few months ago, since the database is cleaned up every now and then
to prevent it from getting cluthered.
/
Apologies to you and all the other listeners, michael37. Nobody likes the stench of black, crispy Halo Heads but ya gotta do what ya gotta do to get rid of them. I believe the foul odor they exude when left alone to multiply, as vermin always does, is even worse.
Reason and common sense were once thought to be an effective weapon but as you can see they live on, oblivious to reason and common sense, an observation that leads some to believe they should be dubbed Hollow Heads rather than Halo Heads.
You really do love listening to yourself, dont you?
If I ever come to Canada (???) or if you ever come to Germany, could we meet each other? I'm really curious whats behind those intelligent statements...
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/
Apologies to you and all the other listeners, michael37. Nobody likes the stench of black, crispy Halo Heads but ya gotta do what ya gotta do to get rid of them. I believe the foul odor they exude when left alone to multiply, as vermin always does, is even worse.
Reason and common sense were once thought to be an effective weapon but as you can see they live on, oblivious to reason and common sense, an observation that leads some to believe they should be dubbed Hollow Heads rather than Halo Heads.
You really do love listening to yourself, dont you?
I've been thinking exactly the same about you.
If I ever come to Canada (???) or if you ever come to Germany, could we meet each other? I'm really curious whats behind those intelligent statements...
You seem to have this whole DC thing and volunteerism backwards. The first premise is that we are here for the projects and not the other way around. They owe us 1 thing and 1 thing only... don't waste our contribution. They owe us absolutely nothing more. They have no time to provide us anything more as they are busy with other important tasks too such as teaching, administrating the computer system at the institution hosting the project, etc.
You, on the other hand, seem to think the projects are bound by some contract to satisfy every insane desire you can dream up, as if they are hired to run the project and nothing more, all to provide you with a means to satisfy your own obsession, the obsession you tell yourself is your hobby. You seem to think the projects exist solely for you, to provide something for you to do in your spare time, to entertain and amuse you. The more they give the more you and your kind demand.
You translate your "hobby" related desires into needs you simply cannot live without, as if your hair and teeth will fall out or that your children will go to bed hungry if those "needs" are not satisfied. You have no idea how utterly stupid and selfish you sound to the rest of us. You are obsessed with BOINC, the stats and making sure it all runs according to some master plan the voices in your head have revealed only to you and a few others that share your sickness. I seriously believe you need to seek help. I say that not to insult you. I say it out of deep and genuine concern for you as a fellow human being, regardless of what my other posts in this thread may lead you to believe. I think you are more than a little obsessed with the whole BOINC thing, I believe you have developed a neurosis over it. No bullshit.
Any sane person realises that the credits are absolutely worthless and 99% of the crunchers are sane. They pick some projects to crunch, they check their results to see if their computers are returning errors/successes, they fix whatever is causing errors and that's all they need. The credits mean absolutely nothing to them, they're just happy to contribute to the science. The other 1% make BOINC, the credits and the stats their lives and I include you in that group. You apparently pore over numbers incessantly, seeking trends, driven by the insane belief that it all needs to be fair, that all the ducks need to be in a row all the time. In reality, the reality your insanity prevents you from seeing, is that the ONLY thing that matters is that the numbers get crunched. NO! Do NOT launch that same old crap about how credits drive crunchers. NOBODY signs up for credits. They sign up to help.
Do you not see how you use your false belief in the value of the credits to perpetuate and justify your activities related to BOINC and how twisted and bizarre your logic becomes as you invent new missions to embark upon, the fear you instill in your own mind, the fear that BOINC will all come crashing down if the credits are not doled out according to your master plan? You are as hooked on all this as a heroin addict is hooked on the drug, as some kids get hooked on gaming. I believe you and a lot of others need to get this whole DC thing back into proper perspective.
No, we will never meet for we share absolutely nothing in common, I suspect. I believe your every thought is related to BOINC, your every breath is for BOINC. I can't imagine me wanting to meet such a 1 dimensional person.
/ I really wonder when I said such things. You misinterpret me completely.
I was talking about my thoughts about the 1k wu's. I only I said that I dont like them, I never said, you or everybody else must not like them. But I think I explained myself here quite well in a few posts.
And believe me, BOINC isnt my life. I have a 40 to 50hours per week job in a social organisation, I'm a husband and father and I'm working honorary at different places.
I'm just trying to discuss things, trying to share my thoughts about certain things. I'm definitely not posting at Message Boards just to insult other people and trample their opinions and thoughts under the foot.
If you could just do without insults and stop enraging other people, not every single discussion you're involved in would end in a flame war.
Am I really the only one here, wondering why (at least parts of) your posts aren't moderated?
Maybe I should print you're answer to my post at TANPAKU, frame it and then I should call this "picture": "The other side of Dagorath - Subtitle: Yes, he really can be good-natured".
PS: Although your last post is very long and that I completely agree to the first paragraph, the rest of it only made me chuckle... And yes, I think we should meet! Definitely! :)
The first premise is that we are here for the projects and not the other way around. They owe us 1 thing and 1 thing only... don't waste our contribution. They owe us absolutely nothing more. They have no time to provide us anything more as they are busy with other important tasks too such as teaching, administrating the computer system at the institution hosting the project, etc.
As I said: Agreed 100%!
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ ...as already said before to compensate the huge worktime of 1 unit and the possible chance of it not validating ok somehow...
Dear Mr. Verhoek, I believe you know about other projects that take much longer and also have the risk of not validating ok. As I said, I find it unnecessary to grant extra credits for longer wu's. As I can see from a few Team Foras, people with fast hosts get these 1k wu's after 7-8 hours already, which is really short, imo.
Anyway, if I browse through the tables I don't see from the beginning of september much devation between claimed and granted, and the average time to
complete a workunit is around 20 hours.
My claimed to granted is at about 1 to 1.6, dont know if one can call this much deviation, since I cant compare it that accurately with other projects. Most of my ABC WU's take less than 2 hours on my host. Maybe I'm getting the short ones in the first place.
I also said it quite often that this is just my opinion (but a few guys dont seem to listen). I also said that if I dont like it I either go somewhere else or cancel them (which is really easy to find out, cause I know how to use a calculator :rolleyes:).
Actually, I dont want to avert my eyes from ABC@Home (why should I, took my computer a long time to do 17k credits), I'm just telling my thoughts here. As I said too, this is your project. Apart from the 1k wu's that I dont like, you're doing a great job and are very responsive - Danken U wel! Just wanted to tell you this, cause somebody claimed that I disrespect the work you're doing.
Groetjes, Shai
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"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
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BOINC Synergy:
/ I really wonder when I said such things. You misinterpret me completely.
I was talking about my thoughts about the 1k wu's. I only I said that I dont like them, I never said, you or everybody else must not like them.
Go re-read your posts. You called some of us "credit-whores". That's a big insult to me or anybody else who feels strongly about the value of investigating the ABC Conjecture. My interest in the conjecture started over 20 years ago. One of the very first programs I ever wrote attempted to find ABC triples and that's why I put almost all my resources into this project. It means a lot to me and your remarks certainly lead/led me to believe you think I should not like the 1K WUs too
You also said the crunchers care more about this project than the admins care. That glorifys you and insults the admins all in 1 statement. And you threw other insults at us. All that before you provided any rational explanation for why the 1K bonus needs to be reduced. Sorry, for most of us the argument that ABC must be in line with some arbitrary standard you chose is not a rational argument, even more so when one considers all the other work the admins need to accomplish here, for example, getting a 64-bit Windows app working and managing the database.
But I think I explained myself here quite well in a few posts.
The responses you received suggest to me you missed the mark entirely.
And believe me, BOINC isnt my life. I have a 40 to 50hours per week job in a social organisation, I'm a husband and father and I'm working honorary at different places.
I don't believe that but what I believe isn't important. All I can say is that if it isn't true and you are the way I described then get some help.
I'm just trying to discuss things, trying to share my thoughts about certain things. I'm definitely not posting at Message Boards just to insult other people and trample their opinions and thoughts under the foot.
The way you and Saenger marched in here, nailed your list of demands on the door like Martin Luther and then proceeded to insult everybody leads me to believe otherwise. Your holier than thou attitude was a big turn off.
If you could just do without insults and stop enraging other people, not every single discussion you're involved in would end in a flame war.
Do your homework. Not every BOINC discussion I get involved in ends in a flame war. Many of them do but that's because I don't play kissy face, I don't walk away from issues just to avoid conflict, k00ks deserve to be told they're k00ks for humanitarian reasons.
Am I really the only one here, wondering why (at least parts of) your posts aren't moderated?
You ever consider the possibility that many of the admins think and feel exactly the way I do? Does their silence not speak to you?
Maybe I should print you're answer to my post at TANPAKU, frame it and then I should call this "picture": "The other side of Dagorath - Subtitle: Yes, he really can be good-natured".
I posted there on 2 topics: American foreign policy and apparent waste of donated resources. Both are abominations though for different reasons and to different degrees. I feel no need to apologize for any statements I made there. You're telling me I expressed my opinion too strongly in one/both cases. I say Americans and TANPAKU admins are dense and we need the volume turned up a little to get through to them otherwise they'll just continue to abuse the rest of us and hurt themselves.
/ The credit-whore accusation was towards "ONE" person, not "some" and it was related to the "RND Statement"! Btw, RND did adjust their credits shortly after the project became public and a few users expressed their concerns about RND's credit system. :D Of course, I'm not expecting ABC to do so. But why do I need to say again that I, only I dont like the 1k wu's?
The "Volunteers do care more than the project officials" Statement was related to the posts that are against the rules. They are still there, btw.
Also, the "Geh kacken" Statement was mistranslated by cruncher. It meant "Please, go and have a pooh!" To sh** is something completely different.
English isnt my first language, btw. Now please nobody tell me to shut up cause I'm not in the "English-Is-My-Mothertongue-Company". :rolleyes:
Also, I try to be insightful and I did apologize for my inconsiderate statements - at least I tried to.
You ever consider the possibility that many of the admins think and feel exactly the way I do? Does their silence not speak to you?
We both know that this isnt true. They might agree with you about the 1k wu-thing - which would be fine for me. But they definitely don't agree with your insults. Thats what I was talking about, anyway.
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But from my side, we could stop this ...erm... "conversation".
You have you're opinion, I have mine. And nobody told one of us to be correct. You think you are correct, I think that I made a good point. (As always please note the bold letters! ;) )
Hendrik Verhoek posted his point of view. I'm fine with it. Maybe you are too!
Best, Shai aka Halo Head aka Zero RACer
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"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ Well, how credits are granted and how much is granted etc. is determined by the community, I've adopted to the wishes of the majority, fixed credits, trying to get close to other projects as good as we can although we can't predict workunits time.
To me, credits mean nothing, but it's a thing that has grown into the boinc community so ok, we will try to make it as best possible.
More important is the triple information per user, what's your best quality,
how many triples did you find etc. This *still* has to come into the english
website, and when that comes I hope it releases some pressure of the credits.
Anyway, I'm not responsible for the progression of that, I would have wanted
that months ago.
Everybody is free to share their opinions thoughts, I just browse through them and
try to make everyone more or less happy although clearly it's impossible, but we
try to approximate :)
So if someone thinks 1000 is too much for these units, feel free, all of you,
to say so.
/ Well, how credits are granted and how much is granted etc. is determined by the community, I've adopted to the wishes of the majority, fixed credits, trying to get close to other projects as good as we can although we can't predict workunits time.
To me, credits mean nothing, but it's a thing that has grown into the boinc community so ok, we will try to make it as best possible.
More important is the triple information per user, what's your best quality,
how many triples did you find etc. This *still* has to come into the english
website, and when that comes I hope it releases some pressure of the credits.
Anyway, I'm not responsible for the progression of that, I would have wanted
that months ago.
Everybody is free to share their opinions thoughts, I just browse through them and
try to make everyone more or less happy although clearly it's impossible, but we
try to approximate :)
So if someone thinks 1000 is too much for these units, feel free, all of you,
to say so.
Hendrik, I recall a post from you many months ago that left me with the impression that you put a lot of work into the approximation of WU time and the approximation of granted credits. I also recall the credits oscillating up and down, sometimes too low and sometimes too high, while you adjusted the approximations. Eventually it seemed like everyone agreed that the approximation in effect now is as accurate as it can be even though the 1K WUs do seem to be a little high. It seems to me that if you adjust the approximation down then granted credits will become lower than claimed credits for the majority of WUs. That would cause even more complaints.
If you can adjust the credits down by simply editing a variable or 2 in the config files and avoid making the granted credits lower than the claimed credits then I have no objection to that. However, if it would require you to spend hours re-thinking the entire approximation computation and algorithm then it isn't worth it. In that case your time would be far better spent getting the 64-bit Win application working.
/ Yeah, I will take a look. I can also just set the max which is now 1000 to 800 or something, that would be very simple, if the number 1000 is the only problem.
/ Yeah, I will take a look. I can also just set the max which is now 1000 to 800 or something, that would be very simple, if the number 1000 is the only problem.
Maybe start a thread where every single user that crunched or chrunches can vote for or against it. Simply Yes or No - no discussion like this one...
As I said so often now, its just my opinion. There are a few that dont like them as well, but there are also many others who think that the 1k is appropriate.
And there will be the ones that dont care, that are not interested in credits at all.
Personally, I would welcome it (the lowering of the max. credits), as you can imagine. Imo, its a step in the right direction.
One "problem" hasnt been mentioned, I think: Sometimes it happens that you get 1000 credits for 20hours work, and you still get 1000credits if the workunit took 40 hours to complete. Maybe the granting should be more linear, if possible. If I recall correctly, its exponential atm. Or maybe it shouldnt be that exponential, then...
As Dagorath said, if its too much of work redoing the whole thing, then I'd say as well that you might have more important things to do.
Its a difficult topic, but it shouldnt make YOUR life difficult!
Best, Shai
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"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ Yeah, I will take a look. I can also just set the max which is now 1000 to 800 or something, that would be very simple, if the number 1000 is the only problem.
Maybe start a thread where every single user that crunched or chrunches can vote for or against it. Simply Yes or No - no discussion like this one...
As I said so often now, its just my opinion. There are a few that dont like them as well, but there are also many others who think that the 1k is appropriate.
And there will be the ones that dont care, that are not interested in credits at all.
Personally, I would welcome it (the lowering of the max. credits), as you can imagine. Imo, its a step in the right direction.
One "problem" hasnt been mentioned, I think: Sometimes it happens that you get 1000 credits for 20hours work, and you still get 1000credits if the workunit took 40 hours to complete. Maybe the granting should be more linear, if possible. If I recall correctly, its exponential atm. Or maybe it shouldnt be that exponential, then...
As Dagorath said, if its too much of work redoing the whole thing, then I'd say as well that you might have more important things to do.
Its a difficult topic, but it shouldnt make YOUR life difficult!
Best, Shai
Since the credits are totally worthless and the only harm resulting from the current situation is just a figment of your confused brain, Hendrik's life has already been made more difficult than it needs to be.
Already my predictions are coming true. Simply lowering the max is not good enough. Now you need a vote and more linearity. Like I said earlier... there is never any end to the demands from you k00ks, you invent one problem after another... sick... very, very sick.
I say let's put it to vote. I want to see you lose because then you'll whine and complain like a big baby that the vote was rigged, people used sockpuppets to register multiple votes, etc. Then you'll demand some complicated mecahanism to provide irrefutable proof that the vote is valid. And when you lose that vote you'll say your standards for the voting procedure were never actually met. Eventually the extent of your sickness will be obvious to all.
You're not here for the sake of this project or even for the sake of DC in general. You're here because you're a whiny k00k that doesn't get attention anywhere else so you come here and stir things up so that somebody, anybody, will talk to you.
@Hendrik.... just ignore these k00ks. They aren't worth the bother
/
You're not here for the sake of this project or even for the sake of DC in general. You're here because you're a whiny k00k that doesn't get attention anywhere else so you come here and stir things up so that somebody, anybody, will talk to you.
If it were true what you're saying, then we both have something in common!
I wont answer to the rest of your [...] sorry, I mean post. As always it was just a proposal towards Hendrik, you're not in the position to tell him what to do. I wasn't talking to you anyway in my last post. Hendrik will decide what to do with my point. I'm fine with whatever he decides (as already stated in a few posts).
And if it were true that the credits are completely irrelevant to you, why are you making such a fuss? You love ABC because it reminds you of something what sounds like a nice afterglow of your past. You dont care at all about credits, still you're insulting people that make points about the credits. Just keep your mouth shut and let those people discuss that think 1000 credit workunits are important together with the few guys that do care about fair credits and fair competition.
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"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ Just keep your mouth shut
Definition of a hypocrite: one who pauses telling others what to do and insulting them just long enough to tell them what to do and insult them back. None of your own rules ever apply to you, a Halo Head for sure. Lol!
/ Dagorath
ID: 726
Credit: 439,623
RAC: 2,122
Unread post Message 6178 - Posted 16 Sep 2007 0:53:39 UTC - in response to Message ID 6176.
Last modified: 16 Sep 2007 0:54:56 UTC
This post has been filtered (rating: -1) and the user is on your ignore list, press here to view this thread without filtering
Just to make the mindset of the known troublemaker Dago-Rat clear, here's a thread he started @Tanpaku. I have him on ignore, so I don't have to read his meaningless rantings.
/ Pls..stop this meaningless shit..
Chrunching should be fun and not a lot of arguing about points..
Have a nice day and a happy chrunching!
:-D
/ Dagorath
ID: 726
Credit: 439,623
RAC: 2,122
Unread post Message 6178 - Posted 16 Sep 2007 0:53:39 UTC - in response to Message ID 6176.
Last modified: 16 Sep 2007 0:54:56 UTC
This post has been filtered (rating: -1) and the user is on your ignore list, press here to view this thread without filtering
Just to make the mindset of the known troublemaker Dago-Rat clear, here's a thread he started @Tanpaku. I have him on ignore, so I don't have to read his meaningless rantings.
ROFLMAO!!
Thanks, Saenger. The thread you linked to clearly demonstrates my concern over a real problem... waste of precious resources donated to Tanpaku. Obviously you think it's wrong to be concerned over wasting precious resources that cost real money. Your posts in this thread indicate you think it's better to focus on crap that hurts nobody and credits that have zero real value.
Saenger, your belief that folks here are stupid enough to believe your cheap "I ignore him" stunt demonstrates your holier than thou attitude yet again. We all know you read my posts anyway.
See, I don't have to post links to your abundant drivel at all the other projects, you conveniently make your mindset clear to everyone in this thread.
Keep up the good work, Saenger. Have a nice day, sorry the voices in your head direct you to make such a fool of yourself but you refuse to stay on your medication so you have nobody to blame but yourself.
/ Nothing new is being said any more.
The admin has our opinions. He'll decide what to do, if anything.
It's time to end this conversation.
____________
Dublin, CA
Team SETI.USA
/ Nothing new is being said any more.
The admin has our opinions. He'll decide what to do, if anything.
It's time to end this conversation.
Agreed! Now it's time to battle waste and retarded thinking at LHC where Neasan has sunk his own ship as I suspected he eventually would.
/ Well, how credits are granted and how much is granted etc. is determined by the community, I've adopted to the wishes of the majority, fixed credits, trying to get close to other projects as good as we can although we can't predict workunits time.
To me, credits mean nothing, but it's a thing that has grown into the boinc community so ok, we will try to make it as best possible.
More important is the triple information per user, what's your best quality,
how many triples did you find etc. This *still* has to come into the english
website, and when that comes I hope it releases some pressure of the credits.
Anyway, I'm not responsible for the progression of that, I would have wanted
that months ago.
Everybody is free to share their opinions thoughts, I just browse through them and
try to make everyone more or less happy although clearly it's impossible, but we
try to approximate :)
So if someone thinks 1000 is too much for these units, feel free, all of you,
to say so.
I think we should get 2000 credits for those WU's - of course, this is just an opinion of a "Credit-Whore" that happens to be 16th for total BOINC credit, but even being a credit whore - I do work the science of a project along with the science of collecting credits.
____________
/ 
Do we really need to rock the boat here. This is my main project these days i dont hop around finding the best credit. I think the credits too high crowd should wander off and complain about optimized Seti or Einstein apps for a while. This is not a project for the we want max credits crowd its just somewhere in the middle there. As it should be.
I have 2 64 bit Linux Core 2 Duo's here that generally get more than claimed where on other projects they get a fraction of claimed. My 32 bit Linux laptop gets approximatly what it claims so wheres the problem. I run 64 bit on a high end machine and if i get one of those rather rare over 8 hour workunits i get 100 credits. Kinda nice getting rewarded for having a stable machine and crunching as long as required even though i wasnt expecting it to take more than an hour.
Other longer projects yes a couple come to mind. CPDN is longer but you still get credit if it falls over part way (and get a bonus at the end). Im told there are others as well but long WU's with an unstable app aint my style why waste the power if i aint gonna finish the WU. That way my contribution is nothing.
The credits are fine as is, bring on 64 bit Windows or the translated tripples instead of recalculating all the credits.
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/ 
Nothing new is being said any more.
The admin has our opinions. He'll decide what to do, if anything.
It's time to end this conversation.
I agree. This should (in my opinion) have been closed/locked long ago when the name calling began.
____________
/ Nothing new is being said any more.
The admin has our opinions. He'll decide what to do, if anything.
It's time to end this conversation.
Agreed!
____________
"Halo Heads" dream came true on the 1st of August...
_______________
BOINC Synergy:
/ No idea what all the ad homimem is about and why the admins are tolerating this is beyond me.... must be the overly tolerant Dutch streak. While i think this to be a fun math project, at least RekenMeeMetABC site conveys that image, threads like these certainly do not promote this fun feeling. Something the admins may want to reflect upon.
There's been a thread opened at BOINC discussing future formulation of credits, that meet both a project stimulation needs, yet continues to fit within the cross-project comparing as so many sites do at e.g. BOINCstats or BOINCcombined, where the graph, link below, shows interesting variations on who are the hi/low/middle of the road creditors. Sadly ABC@Home has not made it into the matrix yet, maybe something Hendrik would want to promote, so at least we know how things measure up, for those that do want to measure up.
http://boinc.netsoft-online.com/e107_plugins/boinc/get_cpcs.php
One thing for the fun part.... I'm still missing why in a quorum an identified tripple is assigned only to the fastest returning a work unit, or whatever rule that decides for it to go to only one in a quorum. Why not show it in the tally for all that found a match? That way, partners could find each-other in the result. ATM a 'I found this hi quality tripple' does not do right to the other silent partner which was demoted to simply being an anonymous verifier. Those are just left with the credits.
____________
Coelum Non Animum Mutant, Qui Trans Mare Currunt
/ No idea what all the ad homimem is about and why the admins are tolerating this is beyond me.... must be the overly tolerant Dutch streak. While i think this to be a fun math project, at least RekenMeeMetABC site conveys that image, threads like these certainly do not promote this fun feeling. Something the admins may want to reflect upon.
There's been a thread opened at BOINC discussing future formulation of credits, that meet both a project stimulation needs, yet continues to fit within the cross-project comparing as so many sites do at e.g. BOINCstats or BOINCcombined, where the graph, link below, shows interesting variations on who are the hi/low/middle of the road creditors. Sadly ABC@Home has not made it into the matrix yet, maybe something Hendrik would want to promote, so at least we know how things measure up, for those that do want to measure up.
http://boinc.netsoft-online.com/e107_plugins/boinc/get_cpcs.php
One thing for the fun part.... I'm still missing why in a quorum an identified tripple is assigned only to the fastest returning a work unit, or whatever rule that decides for it to go to only one in a quorum. Why not show it in the tally for all that found a match? That way, partners could find each-other in the result. ATM a 'I found this hi quality tripple' does not do right to the other silent partner which was demoted to simply being an anonymous verifier. Those are just left with the credits.
What? The triplets go only to the first to turn in a result? Hugly unfair, i wondered about the missing triplets i was seeing in the account page and was asking to fix the triplets counter, well no i know.
Well thats a reason to leave the project and I suggest other do as well until the moderaters or project responsibles find a more fair approach to this.
Drop me a note if you changed your approach, buy.
regards Nikolaus
/ What? The triplets go only to the first to turn in a result? Hugly unfair, i wondered about the missing triplets i was seeing in the account page and was asking to fix the triplets counter, well no i know.
Well thats a reason to leave the project and I suggest other do as well until the moderaters or project responsibles find a more fair approach to this.
Drop me a note if you changed your approach, buy.
regards Nikolaus
<yawn>
/ No idea what all the ad homimem is about and why the admins are tolerating this is beyond me.... must be the overly tolerant Dutch streak. While i think this to be a fun math project, at least RekenMeeMetABC site conveys that image, threads like these certainly do not promote this fun feeling. Something the admins may want to reflect upon.
There's been a thread opened at BOINC discussing future formulation of credits, that meet both a project stimulation needs, yet continues to fit within the cross-project comparing as so many sites do at e.g. BOINCstats or BOINCcombined, where the graph, link below, shows interesting variations on who are the hi/low/middle of the road creditors. Sadly ABC@Home has not made it into the matrix yet, maybe something Hendrik would want to promote, so at least we know how things measure up, for those that do want to measure up.
http://boinc.netsoft-online.com/e107_plugins/boinc/get_cpcs.php
One thing for the fun part.... I'm still missing why in a quorum an identified tripple is assigned only to the fastest returning a work unit, or whatever rule that decides for it to go to only one in a quorum. Why not show it in the tally for all that found a match? That way, partners could find each-other in the result. ATM a 'I found this hi quality tripple' does not do right to the other silent partner which was demoted to simply being an anonymous verifier. Those are just left with the credits.
You're forgetting that hardly anybody posts at all on rekenmeemetabc.nl and
it only has a few visitors, almost everything happens here.
The "overly tolerating Dutch streak" is not censoring people, if people have something to say let's hear it, as long if it's not going beyond the limits.
We have a few moderators now who should take care of that.
It is not my task to promote credit comparisons on sites I don't even know,
I have enough to do as it is.
If it is not good I will hear it from the abc users and adjust accordingly,
like I've always done.
I explained before that this is due to the databases that need to have all this data and the way boinc works with canonical workunits. Maybe it will change
in the future, I don't know.
/